OPK continued... not synching with chart?

[Junebug]

Is there a doctor in the house??!

My opk was negative at 1:30p on cd 13
My opk was positive at 1:30p on cd 14
My opk was negative at 1:30p on cd 15

My chart indicates I ov'd on cd 13.
If that is truly the case, wouldn't my opk have been positive just previous, and perhaps on, cd 13, but certainly not after?

Has this happened to anyone?

My doc informed us to bd precisely on the two or so days between receiving a positive opk and my temp spike, so I expected my temp to really spike at around cd 15 or 16 (today). But according to my chart we missed the window altogether because my ov ocurred BEFORE my opk? That's not possible, right?:confused:

This is SO confusing for both of us and we are becoming increasingly disappointed/frustrated, which doesn't help a bit. Thanks, and see chart below.
http://i1.tinypic.com/o5u6uq.jpg

[fishdoc]

Hey June,

well, there are a few things about charting temps - one is, it usually takes a cycle or two (at least) to get the whole charting thing down. I assume oyu are testing your temp at precisely the same time every day, after several hours of sleep, and using a digital thermometer? Mrs Fish and I would usually take the temp at least twice in a row - sometimes the temp would be off by a few tenths of a degree between readings! And we had three (good) themrometers. So things like having your mouth open while sleeping, cold room, etc can really have an effect.

Also - your chart looks like many of Mrs Fish's - not at all "clean", but awfully noisy. I would be reluctant to believe the fertilityfriend prediciton that the 13th was your day, at least based on this chart. It sure looks *possible*, but tough call.

I think it IS possible to have a negative OPK on the day you actually ovulate, since the LH surge precedes ovulation by 36 hours or so. But it would not make sense (to me) that oyu would then have a positive OPK AFTER ovulating.

The faqs on this page http://www.peeonastick.com/opkfaq.html#5 are really helpful for putting all of this in perspective - the bottom line is, temp chartting is less precise than opks, and you might want to start testing 2x per day, just to be safe.

If I may ask - how many days is your cycle usually? The luteal phase (2d half) is pretty consistent for most women, at 12-15 days or so....if you were ovulating on CD 16, that would mean yu generally have a 28-30 day sysle - does that sound right?

The take home message - don't give up, try to BD every other day or so around fertile times, and test often!

Fish

[Junebug]

Hey Mr Fish,

Yes, yes, and yes; digital bbt, same time everyday first thing in the AM. I still have yet to see a significant temp rise- day 4 after +opk- so I'm thinking I'm not going to, or did not, ov this time around.

I failed to plug in the +opk in my FF chart, by the way, and now that I have done so, FF took my cd13 ov date away.

Regarding my cycle length- typically it is right around 28 days, but the last cycle went 31 days with a late (day 16) ov. One of our problems is that my body doesn't create ewcm, so I can't monitor that way. I can't believe I'm telling this to a guy- much less to lots of nameless/faceless women and gents... This board is crazy. Here's to experience and stories for the rocking chair.

So, that's it for this cycle, I suppose, and doc is insistent on a post coital test *only* for next cycle... (have I mentioned I think my doc is a waste of time/money? He's the only specialist- not an RE- outside of a 4.5 hour drive each way, so we're stuck in this regard. He's never even ordered an u/s). Anyway, another two cycles gone.
So hard to remain optimistic at times. Ugh.

[fishdoc]

June,

believe me, I know how tough this is, but we all help each other through it.

So - I understand your frustration, but remember that temp charting is far less accurate than is OPK testing. Also, an inability to see a thermal shift does not necessarily indicate a problem with ovulating. It is an indicator for your doc to consider, but (especially after only less than one cycle of charting), it does not mean all that much. Also, in looking at your chart - recall that the coverline should generally be drawn when the bbt shifts at least 2/10 of a degree higher than the previous 6 days. On the 13th you DID see a 2/10 rise, but (unless that one was an incorrect outlier) it was NOT higher than the previous 6 days. Mrs Fish had some odd looking charts as well, but she ovulates fine - it just required seeing a few of them for us to get a feel for what was going on. Also, bbt charts tell you AFTER you ovulate, but not so good at predicting, so trust the OPK, and use the bbt as a backup (and to look for an early warning of impending AF).

No worries about too much info around here - believe me, Mrs Fish and I have discussed these things with doctors and nurses and friends until it all feels very matter of fact. Having just had to provide a sample this morning, and then wander around the doctor's hallways carrying it, I have lost some of my ability to be embarassed myself!

So, the lack of EWCM may or may not be important, as I am sure you guessed. I would recommend in the meantime using PreSeed (hey, it cant hurt!), and try to push your doc to give you the test sooner. It pays ot be a little aggressive with your health care - so go ahead and push! Also, I forget how old you are, but there is no sense is wasting cycles - yeah, that is a long trip to the nearest RE (none in Eureka? I suppose that is the price you pay for living in such a beautiful place!) - still, I would go ahead and start making appointments etc - you can always keep doing stuff naturally and with your current doc, while getting appointments, prelim tests, etc set up for an RE.

I know how tough it is to stay optimistic, but it really is healthier to try and keep "centered". Remember, you have a loving partner, live in a beautiful area, etc - try to count your blessings, and know that you are doing what you can about the kid thing!

Fish

[Junebug]

Nope, no REs in Eureka, just the OBGyn infert specialist here in Arcata. There is a women's health specific clinic, but that's who I used to go to for my primary care and I wasn't impressed, so...
I do have a great RE contact in NY; supposedly the creme de la creme of REs- a friend of a friend... you know how that goes. I have spoken with him once and he provided verbal references to REs in the Bay area, San Jose, Sacto... and he has offered up a phone consultation for a price. We'll see. Our ins doen't cover much locally, and it doesn't cover anything out of the area, so...

Yes! We love this area! And there are downfalls/sacrifices to living here... we all have one or two- it's just part of being Arcatan I guess.

...and for your reading pleasure, a little background and my comparative chart:
DH and are both 35, ttc on and off for 5 years, and very seriously for the last four months
DH was a professional cyclist for 20+ years and still commutes 8 miles every day. 175m with 60% motility, so, he's still in pretty good shape. The bike is his lifeline, so it stays, but he has gone to standing all eight miles, boxers, and he stays out of the hot tub...
I have endo, a stenotic cervix, no ewcm, and my FSH is 13.
Thus far, we're using PreSeed, FertilityBlend, charting, and this cycle, for the first time, an OPK.
We both maintain an uber healthy lifestyle- lots of freshies from the juicer, water, good eats, etc...
And now, other than having a doc that we are feeling is less than progressive, we're waiting, waiting, waiting! For instance, why would he waste the time to do a post-coital if he's already told me I have a stenotic cervix and I know for a fact I don't produce ewcm?
That's about all the drama I can handle for today! Thanks for your kind words and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, too!

Below are the last two months of my charting... keep in mind my +opk was on cd 14
http://i1.tinypic.com/o7mxea.jpg

[fishdoc]

well you sure sound like oyu have a lot on your plate, but it also sounds like you are doing all the right htings.

About your chart - I would say that, based on Jan anyway, you do NOT have an anovulatory chart. You see sustained high temps in the luteal phase, and a pretty solid biphasic pattern. (cd 23 may have been an implantation dip, or may have been an anomalous reading - tough call). I would have guessed a cd 16 ovulation.

This month will probably be clearer in hindsight (they always are), but remember that you end up putting lots of weight on relatively small differences (a couyple of tenths of a degree), and that sort of variance is easy to get form normal variation. That is why hindsight is always easy - you can see a sustained thermal shift, so even if you cant pinpoint the day, you know it happened. I would add that an OPK+ on cd 14 would suggest ov on day 16, which matches the chart well for last month anyway. Bottom line, although I am not that kind of doctor (a medical one ;)), you look like you are ovulating.

Hang in there, enjoy your trip to Sta Barbara, and try to relax if oyu can!

Fish